Hello friends,

I have difficulty with knowing Leea species. (L. macrophylla is the easiest to know).

At present, I want to know the difference between L. asiatica and L. indica ... the former is not discussed in any of the books on Western Ghats that I have.

One is a shrub that grows not more than a metre's height, does grow wide as much as 2 metres, seldom has any erect stem, all seem to grow slant.

The other has erect stem, branching, seen reaching heights of even 3 metres.

Both have grooved stems, swollen joints.

Leaves are not much different from each other; pinnate, serrate, 3-5(-7) leaflets, oblong (variable).

Inflorescence, in both cases, compound umbel, mostly at the end of stem.

(But noticeably in the under-shrub, the peduncle is relatively longer, can measure upto 8-10 inches, before it starts branching).

Flowers, greenish-white in both cases, there may be minute differences in terms of millimetres, which I have not analysed.

The tall erect shrub is now in flowering period, and I have tentatively assumed it to be L. indica.
Would the other be L. asiatica ?

Help me get some clarity.

Thanks very much,
Dinesh.

First of all, L. asiatica is listed in the Sahyadri Database site at IISc. So, it is certainly found in Sahyadri region.

Secondly, there seems to be a very clear distinction in the leaf structure of the two:
L. asiatica: either pinnate (single compound) or 3-leaved.
L. indica : 2- or 3-pinnate
This feature L. indica is mentioned on the Sahyadri Database and eFloras.org.
There are some web-source which say pinnate or 3-pinnate, which I think, is not correct.
I also used the latter descrïption carelessly on FOI. Also the L. indica on FOI is Kazuo's identification, which I have no way of verifying. Can't make out the leaf structure in that picture (I have a suspicion, it could be L. asiatica). If you have more pictures, it would clarify things.
Comments solicited.

Dinesh, your pictures of L. indica on flickr clearly show at least double-compound (2-pinnate) leaves. So, now you just need to check the leaves of your other doubtful species.

Tabish, I did had visited the sites you mentioned; but I have got confused!
I also visited:
Asia Pacific Medicinal Plant Database  
Singapore Govt. National Parks
Asia Pacific Medicinal Plant Database
Asia Pacific Medicinal Plant Database
... and I got a feeling that there are (slight) contradictions in descrïptions, and led to more confusion.

FFOI illustrates L. indica, but it does not L. asiatica ... therefore does not help comparison.

If at any place, the height of shrub was mentioned it may have eased ...


Click on photo below to see more photos / views.
They are already marked as L. indica, now I doubt it to be L. asiatica.




Thanks very much, regards.

[Edited the URL to get photos]  

--Last edited by dinesh valke on 2008-04-12 01:20:32 --

Dinesh, the following picture indicates 2-pinnate leaves: I would think it is L. indica
 

--Last edited by tabish on 2008-04-11 00:57:19 --

OK. let me put it this way ... all my Leea indica uploaded prior to 7th Apr 2008 are in question.

The one which you just pointed out is of 7/4/2008 ... "even I think to be Leea indica".

You are right. The links you quoted have contradictory descrïptions.
All your shots tagged Leeaindica are too close-ups to make out if the leaves are double-compound or just pinnate (if that is a genuine distinction)

I can only say one thing about their height.
My height is 5'3" and I could see the entire shrub !!

By the way, my usual reference HandBookOfTheIndianFlora also says that the leaves of L. asiatica (L. crispa) are pinnate. So, my feeling that L. asiatica cannot have 2-pinnate leaves, is getting stronger.
Another possible indicator:
Sahyadri Database gives the flowering times as:
L. asiatica - September
L. indica - May
अब जून मे खींचा तो कौन सा होगा?
(seriously, I would not rely much on this flowering time diff)  

--Last edited by tabish on 2008-04-11 01:18:35 --

Dinesh, I had missed this picture of your in my previous search.

This was taken on 26th August 2007, and on zooming it I can only see pinnnate leaves, no double-pinnates.
So, from the logic I have been building up, it should be L. asiatica.
But is it, really?

The flowering / fruiting periods seem to have gone awry with warming of globe !!
And to top that, often times it is found that it is differently recorded, for instance:


L. asiatica

Database of Western Ghats Flora
Flowering: September.

Asia Pacific Medicinal Plant Database
Flowering: July to August; Fruiting: September to November.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

L. indica

Database of Western Ghats Flora
Flowering: May, Fruiting: June-September.


Asia Pacific Medicinal Plant Database

Flowering and Fruiting: September to November.

---------------------------------------------------------------------


The "L. asiatica" that we are considering, I have seen them flowering during rainy season in W. Ghats.

The L. indica that I have just recently shot seems to flower in the summer season.


My feeling that the earlier shots are those of L. asiatica is getting stronger, AND is almost it.

So, is this 26th August 2007 pic of yours is of the same lot as the ones presently marked L. indica?
If so, I would tend to agree with you on that it should be L. asiatica.

Yes.
All the earlier Leea sp. and Leea indica, before 07/04/2008 are same.

I also would like to add my observation that this L. asiatica inflorescence always shows flowers in the same horizontal plane; L. macrophylla exhibits similarly.  

--Last edited by dinesh valke on 2008-04-11 17:01:27 --

Great! So, lets consider the issue settled, as of now. I will pick up your pics from flickr to use on FOI.

Please go ahead.
Thankyou very much Tabish.